Resource SV NU Viability Rankings

[Togkey]

art made by hotdog.png
(op stolen from the OU VR w/ permission from Finchinator)
​

Welcome to the first ever Scarlet and Violet NeverUsed viability rankings!

In this thread, we, as a community, will be ranking every single justifiably usable Pokemon into "tiers" ranking their viability in the metagame. You're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are viable in NU and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes, but the ultimate decision will be handled by NU Viability Rankings council vote during each slate of rankings -- more on this later.

The general idea of the topic is to rank each NU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a tier list for the entire metagame, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense, defense, and supportive presences in the metagame within this thread. For example, Muk can be ranked in the A- tier as a supportive presence, Haunter can be ranked in the A- as an offensive presence, and Chansey can be ranked in the A- tier as a defensive presence. While these three examples can also be found in the initial rankings, the viability of Pokemon and their roles within the metagame can and will change over time, so we will be sure to keep an open mind to this as well and adjust the thread accordingly during each update.

Finally, there will be a council of experienced players who will discuss and vote on the ranking of Pokemon. Depending on how the metagame is developing, we could update the thread every couple of weeks or every month+. Please note that your posts still very much matter and will be factored in to what we discuss and the discussions themselves. This thread is nothing without the posters and every informed opinion that is shared is considered a valuable contribution in my eyes, so do not hesitate to post if you know the metagame well and understand the forum rules. The council currently consists of the users below, but note that NU will be trying to incorporate a rotating council to bring new and diverse ideas and points of view to the tier.

Current NU Viability Ranking Council

- Danny
- Finchinator
- Elias PSY
- GXE
- Meri Berry
- Rabia
- skierdude101
- Togkey
- zS

Rotational Council Members

- Luck O' the Irish

Former Members

- OnArceus
- Ren-chon

SV NU Viability Ranking Tier List (in alphabetical order within tiers)

New!
Komala
Qwilfish-Hisui
Sliggoo-Hisui
Sneasel-Hisui
Thwackey

S Rank

Eelektross
Sandaconda

S- Rank

Muk
Rotom

A+ Rank

Bruxish
Scyther
Toxicroak
Umbreon
Vaporeon

A Rank

Cacturne
Drifblim
Dudunsparce
Haunter
Jolteon
Lurantis
Qwilfish
Tauros-Paldea
Ursaring

A- Rank

Appletun
Chansey
Mabosstiff
Magneton
Medicham
Oricorio-F

B+ Rank

Bombirdier
Clawitzer
Farigiraf
Hattrem
Indeedee-F
Perrserker
Pyroar
Rotom-Frost
Veluza
Vivillon

B Rank

Crabominable
Misdreavus

B- Rank

Braviary
Glaceon
Houndoom
Klawf
Rotom-Fan
Sawsbuck
Vespiquen
Whiscash
Zangoose

C+ Rank

Basculin
Camerupt
Charizard
Crocalor
Skuntank
Spiritomb

C Rank

Dachsbun
Electrode
Flapple
Glimmet
Golduck
Honchkrow
Lilligant
Rabsca
Raichu
Squawkabilly
Tinkatuff

D rank (NU by usage, not viable)

Nothing!

Please avoid any one-liners or anything along the lines of "Why isn't x ranked as y it's really good!" and please note that this list will be continuously updated as the tier is developed; this is not a final list!!

 

[iLiekMudkipz_]

View attachment 489938

art by yours truly (waiting for real art)
(op stolen from the OU VR w/ permission from Finchinator)
​

Welcome to the first ever Scarlet and Violet NeverUsed viability rankings!

In this thread, we, as a community, will be ranking every single justifiably usable Pokemon into "tiers" ranking their viability in the metagame. You're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are viable in NU and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes, but the ultimate decision will be handled by NU Viability Rankings council vote during each slate of rankings -- more on this later.

The general idea of the topic is to rank each NU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a tier list for the entire metagame, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense, defense, and supportive presences in the metagame within this thread. For example, Muk can be ranked in the A- tier as a supportive presence, Haunter can be ranked in the A- as an offensive presence, and Chansey can be ranked in the A- tier as a defensive presence. While these three examples can also be found in the initial rankings, the viability of Pokemon and their roles within the metagame can and will change over time, so we will be sure to keep an open mind to this as well and adjust the thread accordingly during each update.

Finally, there will be a council of experienced players who will discuss and vote on the ranking of Pokemon. Depending on how the metagame is developing, we could update the thread every couple of weeks or every month+. Please note that your posts still very much matter and will be factored in to what we discuss and the discussions themselves. This thread is nothing without the posters and every informed opinion that is shared is considered a valuable contribution in my eyes, so do not hesitate to post if you know the metagame well and understand the forum rules. The council currently consists of the users below, but note that NU will be trying to incorporate a rotating council to bring new and diverse ideas and points of view to the tier.

Current NU Viability Ranking Council

- Elias PSY
- Finchinator
- Meri Berry
- OnArceus
- Rabia
- Ren-chon
- Togkey
- zS

SV NU Alpha Viability Ranking Tier List (During Alpha stages, Pokemon are going to be categorized into loose tiers in top, high, mid, and low)

Top Tier:
Bruxish
Goodra
Oricorio Pom-Pom
Passimian
Vaporeon

High Tier:
Braviary
Chansey
Copperajah
Crocalor
Dudunsparce
Farigiraf
Frosmoth
Haunter
Jolteon
Lycanroc
Mabosstiff
Medicham
Oricorio-Sensu
Perrserker
Sandaconda
Tauros-Paldea
Toxicroak
Umbreon
Venomoth
Zangoose
Zoroark

Mid Tier:
Basculin
Clawitzer
Drifblim
Eelektross
Hattrem
Honchkrow
Houndoom
Indeedee-F
Klawf
Lilligant
Lurantis
Magneton
Masquerain
Misdreavus
Morgrem
Muk
Oricorio-Baile
Oricorio-Pa'u
Pyroar
Quaxwell
Qwilfish
Rabsca
Rotom-Fan
Rotom-Frost
Sawsbuck
Scyther
Skuntank
Spiritomb
Squawkabilly
Ursaring
Veluza
Vespiquen
Vivillon
Whiscash

Low Tier:

Hide

Appletun
Beartic
Cacturne
Camerupt
Carkol
Crabominable
Electrode
Flapple
Flareon
Fraxure
Frogadier
Glaceon
Glimmet
Gogoat
Golduck
Greavard
Jumpluff
Leafeon
Pincurchin
Raichu
Rotom
Scovillain
Spidops
Tinkatuff
Toedscool
Vigoroth
Wigglytuff
Wugtrio

Please avoid any one-liners or anything along the lines of "Why isn't x ranked as y it's really good!" and please note that this list will be continuously updated as the tier is developed; this is not a final list!!

I'd have to hard disagree on Rotom-Frost being as high as it is, since the prominence of fighting and fire types in the tier combined with its crappy defensive typing makes it either a waste of tera or a mon that can prolly be replaced by like, frogadier or smth.

252 Atk Passimian Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Frost: 350-414 (144.6 - 171%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Nasty Plot)
252 Atk Passimian Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rotom-Frost: 282-332 (92.7 - 109.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (Max Physdef but who unironically runs that lmao)

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Frost: 452-534 (186.7 - 220.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Mabosstiff is one of the best mons in the tier imo. Offensively, this thing is a beast, switching in is near impossible with Stakeout, and it can score decent hits on some of the top pokemon.

252 Atk Choice Band Mabosstiff Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 374-440 (97.6 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (AV)
252 Atk Choice Band Mabosstiff Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vaporeon: 420-496 (90.5 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (Idk what set this is)
252 Atk Choice Band Mabosstiff Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bruxish: 370-436 (133.5 - 157.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Who would run defense)
252 Atk Mabosstiff Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Passimian: 204-240 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Scarf so it can outspeed)
252 Atk Stakeout Mabosstiff Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Passimian: 406-478 (119 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Stakeout calc)
252 Atk Choice Band Mabosstiff Crunch vs. 244 HP / 212 Def Oricorio-Pom-Pom: 192-226 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (UU Quiver Dance)

 

[Punchshroom]

I'd have to hard disagree on Rotom-Frost being as high as it is, since the prominence of fighting and fire types in the tier combined with its crappy defensive typing makes it either a waste of tera or a mon that can prolly be replaced by like, frogadier or smth.

Hard disagree on this take; it sits in a good enough speed tier (outrunning up to Mabosstiff), meaning that Passimian and Medicham can only revenge kill it with Choice Scarf. Rotom-Frost can afford a moveslot to run Protect to scout out the Scarfed Fighting-type's locked move and respond accordingly, and said Fighting had better be clicking Close Combat because Rotom-Frost is very annoying to switch into if you cannot force it out immediately. I also find it baffling that you'd call this a "waste of a Tera" considering its matchups against two of the most prominent bulky mons in the tier aka Vaporeon and Goodra, as well as how difficult its Volt Switches are to block with FrostTom not even needing to Tera, something that cannot be said for any other Volt Switcher in the tier. If anything, FrostTom is an underrated corebreaker.

 

[EonX]

Actually feel this should be on the lower end of High Tier. Rotom-Frost is actually pretty difficult to switch into, pairs quite well with Passimian to form a strong VoltTurn core for teams, and generally has what it needs in 3 moves. Because of that latter point, it kind of has a free moveslot to play with based on team needs. Wisp and Twave each provide status support to annoy switch ins, Protect can scout choice-locked Pokemon and stall screens, Nasty Plot turns it into a sweeper late-game as BoltBeam coverage is not easy to handle, and you can use Tera Blast Ground or Fighting to smack Copper and bulky variants of Perrserker (a lot of them) for heavy damage. It all just depends on team needs. Speaking of Tera, Frostom actually benefits a ton from Tera as it can shed that Ice typing that makes it so vulnerable to the numerous Fighting-types in the tier. 50 / 107 / 107 bulk is just enough to stomach at least one neutral hit. The big issue I feel that holds it back from being truly elite is actually the tier's general lack of hazard control. Without a lot of good, reliable Rapid Spin or Defog users, it generally forces Frostom to run HDB, which means it can't take advantage of that great 86 base Speed as a Scarfer. While this does easily keep it from Top Tier and the upper end of High Tier, I do feel it has enough merit and positive qualities to be a pretty strong corebreaker that doesn't lose momentum against most of the tier's wallbreakers, which I feel is very important for pretty much any non-Scarf Pokemon considering how hard it is to switch into the likes of Medicham, Specs Goodra, and Band Mabosstiff directly. The fact that Frostom can chip these with Volt Switch at worst and outright KO them if they're weakened slightly at best (after just one Volt Switch in the case of Medi and Mabo) is something any more offensive-minded team shouldn't overlook.

 

[Rabia]

I voted Rotom-F to Mid Tier in our first vote because of lack of exposure to it. The Pokemon on paper should be ridiculous; we have few good Steel-types, and many blanket checks to it that we've seen in previous generations of NU don't exist currently. Its Speed tier is also good as previously stated, with Choice Scarf sets outrunning Passimian and Mabosstiff even. But, I'm a little lower on it than others because of a couple things. For starters, competition. For speed options, I just view Pokemon like Lycanroc, Toxicroak, Passimian, and Mabosstiff as a lot more consistent. They're slower sure, but they're stronger and don't have to rely on inaccurate moves for their damage---save for Lycanroc of course. The Stealth Rock weakness is also something that comes into play this generation more than usual and I think is where iLiekMudkipz_ is coming from when he says it's a "waste of a tera" because you do end up needing to tera with it to not take a million from Stealth Rock. Heavy-Duty Boots sets with Nasty Plot probably exist, but they're very easy to revenge kill at the moment and still rely on Blizzard for their damage.

Overall, it's a good and underused Pokemon at the moment, but I think it's an on-paper option more than an in-practice one and lacks the consistency of other High Tier Pokemon.

 

[Minimizing]

Honestly props for getting this tier list together so fast I think it is extremely accurate in the placing of most of the pokemon in this tier especially top and high tier.

Low Tier -> Mid Tier
Rotom forms a really nice core passimian for the the classic volt switch u-turn core. The benefit for using rotom over frost or fan is the fact that it does not have to worry about stealth rocks in a metagame with limited hazard removal. This allows rotom to run a scarf or specs set which the other rotoms can not afford to run. The 91 base speed is quite good in this tier and allows you to offensively check an opposing scarf passimian in the process. I also think being able to run trick is very beneficial in this metagame. There are setup sweepers and bulky walls everywhere and being able to ruin an oricorio, dudunsparce, sandaconda, or crocalor can not be understated. Finally the ghost typing is very beneficial as part of a defensive core in this metagame with all of the fighting and normal types running around.
Rotom continued:
Another set that I think has great potential is leftovers protect volt switch and hex. The idea is that there are many powerful choice users in the tier such as especially fighting types such as medicham and passimian. Utilizing rotom's ghost typing one can scout for what move they are going to go for and abuse the choiced item if it is close combat. If it is another move you can easily switch into any other defensive counter making it a strong defensive core. Wisp is always great to spread with no cleric and rotom's speed tier allows it to outspeed the base 80s with room to spare.

Rotom @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Hex
Note: Speed is to outrun base 80s rest is for defense.

Mid Tier -> High tier
Muk is god. On a serious note Muk definitely deserves to be in high tier in this metagame. It is most certainly as consistent as any other high tier that is on the tier list. Every single game that I have used it or have been against muk it does work.
This is the set I use stolen from OnArceus:
Purple Drank (Muk) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Poison Jab
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Curse
First I will start off with its SPD walling ability against the greatest threats in the NU metagame. It eats Goodras dracos if it is not specs taking around only 35% from one. Even more impressive is the fact that it takes only about 20% from oricorio's revelation dance unboosted. Oricorio is a huge problem in this metagame and Muk is one of the only consistent counters to it. While it may seem like Muk might not have recovery the amount it gets from drain punch and black sludge is quite a bit more than you would think. Also pairing it with a wish passer such as Farigiraf or vaporeon creates an extremely strong core and gives even more recovery to Muk. I think the best part about this set by far though is how efficiently Muk spreads posion with the combination of poison touch and poison jab. There are no clerics within the tier to help a pokemon once it gets poisoned making the chip from muk's posion extremely deadly. You can not switch into steel types either as Muk can easily drain punch copperajah and perrserker doing well over half of their hp. This leaves only the few posions such a qwilfish and opposing muk or a ground such a sandaconda with shedskin. The problem with sandaconda is that by forcing it in it can easily be abused by switching out to Oricorio Pom Pom. This could quite literally be a game over as if the Sandaconda is not running a rock move oricorio will get a quiver dance for free and destroy the other team. Overall, the poison spread by muk not only does really good chip damage but forces your opponent to be quite predictable with what they are going to switch into as there are limited options

Just a quick word on Rotom frost I agree with sentiments said above by Punchshroom and Eonx. It has the same problems it has always had but the benfits outweigh the negatives. It is def a high risk high reward mon to use though and must be played with carefully

 

[Allidoishuynh]

Low tier -> Mid Tier
(Could someone tell me how to do the little pictures instead of the huge animated ones? Thx)

This thing is literally the only fairy on the list and one of only 4 steels as well. All 3 other steels are at least mid tier and Tink compares favorably to them in some important defensive situations.

Physically defensive is basically the only surefire switch into Mabo in the entire tier, while still having enough natural spdef with eviolite to handle a big special threat at least once. Knock off is soooooo important in this meta with Chansey and Crocalor capable of walling damn near everything as well as the prevalence of HDB with all the flyers. That knock off pairs beautifully with rocks which it can also set up to force progress and then the rest of its movepool can get rounded out with attacks like play rough or stone edge to be more threatening or with support like twave or maybe encore.

The big selling point on Tink as a glue mon though, is the fact that it gives u a fairy and steel type without needing to spend Tera. Most mons are trying to become steel or fairy but tink puts those types on your team while letting you confidently click Tera with other mons without as much fear (there's still some) of the defensive ramifications.

Once you get up rocks and maybe knock off their fogger, tink can feel like a huge momentum sink, but that's mostly because the opponents switch in has become abundantly clear due to the progress tink already made. If the switch in has become mandatory, that gives you ample opportunity to play aggressively and try to get a good matchup in vs the clear switch. I think Tink has valuable utility as a support mon and partners well enough with great mons like wish Vapo and AV Goodra that it would justify a bump up to the tier of other solid but imperfect utility mons such as lurantis, quaxwell, whiscash, and vespiqueen.

Edit: put in the picture of Tink

 

[Togkey]

Tinkatuff Low tier -> Mid Tier
(Could someone tell me how to do the little pictures instead of the huge animated ones? Thx)

This thing is literally the only fairy on the list and one of only 4 steels as well. All 3 other steels are at least mid tier and Tink compares favorably to them in some important defensive situations.

Physically defensive is basically the only surefire switch into Mabo in the entire tier, while still having enough natural spdef with eviolite to handle a big special threat at least once. Knock off is soooooo important in this meta with Chansey and Crocalor capable of walling damn near everything as well as the prevalence of HDB with all the flyers. That knock off pairs beautifully with rocks which it can also set up to force progress and then the rest of its movepool can get rounded out with attacks like play rough or stone edge to be more threatening or with support like twave or maybe encore.

The big selling point on Tink as a glue mon though, is the fact that it gives u a fairy and steel type without needing to spend Tera. Most mons are trying to become steel or fairy but tink puts those types on your team while letting you confidently click Tera with other mons without as much fear (there's still some) of the defensive ramifications.

Once you get up rocks and maybe knock off their fogger, tink can feel like a huge momentum sink, but that's mostly because the opponents switch in has become abundantly clear due to the progress tink already made. If the switch in has become mandatory, that gives you ample opportunity to play aggressively and try to get a good matchup in vs the clear switch. I think Tink has valuable utility as a support mon and partners well enough with great mons like wish Vapo and AV Goodra that it would justify a bump up to the tier of other solid but imperfect utility mons such as lurantis, quaxwell, whiscash, and vespiqueen.

:pokemon: ->
:sv/pokemon: ->
:bw/pokemon: ->

 

[Allidoishuynh]

:pokemon: ->
:sv/pokemon: ->
:bw/pokemon: ->

Thank you Togkey, I appreciate the help

 

[plznostep]

I don't really have much quarrels on what's on this list except one thing;

Mid Tier --> Low Tier

Sure, Rotom-Fan isn't bad on its own but then you realise that there Oricorio-Pom Pom who has reliable recovery, better stabs and hazard removal that make Rotom-Fan really hard to justify using over this supreme Pokemon in the set up sweeper slot and defensively, with Rotom-Fan only offering Will o Wisp on defensive sets and slightly better bulk, which does not make up for the major shortcoming of no reliable recovery whatsoever. The only merit that Rotom-Fan can give you is that is better at Choice Sets, but in my opinion that role can also have some stiff competition with something like Rotom-Frost, Raichu or Rotom, who both have better STABS and coverage to support their typings.

So TLDR: Rotom-Fan seems outclassed by arguably the best mon in the tier in Oricorio Pom Pom and other electric scarfers, so while it functions fine enough, it seems like you have a lot of opportunity cost in using it which i believe justifies a place in the Low Tier alongside the other electrics in that tier.

 

[TDurant]

what is Greavard niche? if he is on the list than he must do something specific right?

 

[Sacrificed]

what is Greavard niche? if he is on the list than he must do something specific right?

it is main purpose is to wall medicham with rest talk set which is huge threat and while its movepool is terrible it can fill the last slot with roar,confuse ray or even shadow sneak but that's where the good things end about it. it's passive nature makes it hard to fit on majority of the teams expect like stall or bulky balance and its suspectible to knock off which is bad because passimian is one of the most used mons rn.

here is the set if you want to use it

Greavard
252 Hp 252 Def Bold Nature
Ability:Fluffy
Tera type:Fairy
Night Shade
Rest
Sleep Talk
Roar/Confuse Ray/Shadow Sneak

and here are the relevant calcs for this set

252+ Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 75-88 (24.6 - 28.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Tera Water Bruxish Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 96-114 (31.5 - 37.5%) -- 89.2% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 90-106 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- 10.1% chance to 3HKO

 

[I am New]

it is main purpose is to wall medicham with rest talk set which is huge threat and while its movepool is terrible it can fill the last slot with roar,confuse ray or even shadow sneak but that's where the good things end about it. it's passive nature makes it hard to fit on majority of the teams expect like stall or bulky balance and its suspectible to knock off which is bad because passimian is one of the most used mons rn.

here is the set if you want to use it

Greavard
252 Hp 252 Def Bold Nature
Ability:Fluffy
Tera type:Fairy
Night Shade
Rest
Sleep Talk
Roar/Confuse Ray/Shadow Sneak

and here are the relevant calcs for this set

252+ Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 75-88 (24.6 - 28.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Tera Water Bruxish Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 96-114 (31.5 - 37.5%) -- 89.2% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 90-106 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- 10.1% chance to 3HKO

I mean cant honchkrow just tera dark night slash or bruxish just tera dark crunch or terra psychic psychic fangs? and medi just tera psychic zen headbutt?

252+ Atk Choice Band Pure Power Tera Psychic Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 115-136 (37.8 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Bruxish Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 111-131 (36.5 - 43%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes


252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Tera Dark Bruxish Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
Possible damage amounts: (166, 168, 169, 172, 174, 175, 178, 180


252 Atk Life Orb Tera Dark Honchkrow Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 130-153 (42.7 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes


Even the mons its supposed to check can just brute force through it , cant they? Am I missing something ?

 

[Togkey]

252+ Atk Choice Band Pure Power Tera Psychic Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 115-136 (37.8 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

yes if the Adamant Choice Band Pure Power Medicham Tera's with Stealth Rocks AND Spikes it will 2HKO..

 

[hotdog.png]

I drew some art for this page to do with a song, featuring Magneton, Chansey, and Bruxish:

“ We all live in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine… “

 

[skierdude101]

Low Tier->Mid/High Tier
This deserves to be in at least the Mid-tier bucket, but I'd argue High-tier. Amazing defensive utility because of its immunities. It blanks many Bruxish sets and while crunch can still do a lot, you're still a deterrent. The immunities also come into play against other common threats like Medicham and Clawitzer.

Offensively Cacturne brings a lot to the table. It can comfortably run a variety of sets and has an incredible move pool. Taunt, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Encore, Destiny Bond are all great utility options while it also has access to SD and NP for setup sets. Quite notably, Cacturne can struggle to hit PomPom, but Spikes sets can help make up for that.

I've really been liking this mixed Spikes set, manages to catch people off-guard occasionally since they don't expect the strong LeafStorm after seeing the physical attacks. I'm Tera Dark just for emergency damage with Sucker Punch, but you could easily run something else.

Cacturne @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick / Drain Punch
- Spikes

 

[Togkey]

Low Tier->Mid/High Tier
This deserves to be in at least the Mid-tier bucket, but I'd argue High-tier. Amazing defensive utility because of its immunities. It blanks many Bruxish sets and while crunch can still do a lot, you're still a deterrent. The immunities also come into play against other common threats like Medicham and Clawitzer.

Offensively Cacturne brings a lot to the table. It can comfortably run a variety of sets and has an incredible move pool. Taunt, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Encore, Destiny Bond are all great utility options while it also has access to SD and NP for setup sets. Quite notably, Cacturne can struggle to hit PomPom, but Spikes sets can help make up for that.

I've really been liking this mixed Spikes set, manages to catch people off-guard occasionally since they don't expect the strong LeafStorm after seeing the physical attacks. I'm Tera Dark just for emergency damage with Sucker Punch, but you could easily run something else.

Cacturne @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick / Drain Punch
- Spikes

Echoing this! I've used a fully physical SD set to great success:

Cacturne @ Lum Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch
- Swords Dance

Tera Fairy lets you SD in front of some of your most notable weaknesses; Fighting and Bug, letting you take on Passimian in a pinch and cheese some free SD's in front of Choice-locked Goodra or U-Turn users. Lum Berry is especially clutch and I've tried a bunch of different items like Life Orb and Black Glasses but Lum has helped the most.

 

[CW1999]

I do agree with high tier placement though it isn't as easy to use as some other pokemon in this tier placement
Dudunsparce is capable of many feats in the tier with a few notable sets with great annoyance to the opponent.

Such as running a curse set leverage it's already decent defences to be much more difficult to break. With curse it can boost it defences that quickly make dudunsparce tricky to take down, making use of tera ghost it can invalidate traditional fighting attacks such as close combat with high presence of fighters in the tier. However it is only safe against dark type coverage by pretty much everything except Bruxish as it does a minimum of 64.9% to it with the choice banded crunch.

252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Bruxish Crunch vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Tera Ghost Dudunsparce: 294-346 (64.9 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also Cacturne does stop it in its tracks due to dragon tails negative priority but sucker punch can be taken advantage of such as cursing it (tera ghost has been used) or boosting defences if it eventually is going to lose the 1v1.

252+ Atk Choice Band Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Tera Ghost Dudunsparce: 300-354 (66.2 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Dudunsparce-Three-Segment @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Atk / 208 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Dragon Tail
- Glare
- Headbutt/Body Slam

Dudunsparce can run a quite mean special set too, this can potentially devastate the entire tier either 1 OHKO or 2 OHKO and once boosted to +4 special attack the combination of boomburst and shadow ball can takedown special tanks such as AV Goodra. It doesn't always work as it unfavourable damage rolls with draco meteor unboosted. Finally this set is more vulnerable than the physical set as the many physical attacks can exploit its dark weakness while tera ghost far more easily.

252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Dudunsparce: 262-310 (57.8 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+4 0 SpA Dudunsparce Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 184-217 (48 - 56.6%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO

Dudunsparce @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Boomburst
- Shadow Ball

 

[I am New]

View attachment 491881
I do agree with high tier placement though it isn't as easy to use as some other pokemon in this tier placement
Dudunsparce is capable of many feats in the tier with a few notable sets with great annoyance to the opponent.

Such as running a curse set leverage it's already decent defences to be much more difficult to break. With curse it can boost it defences that quickly make dudunsparce tricky to take down, making use of tera ghost it can invalidate traditional fighting attacks such as close combat with high presence of fighters in the tier. However it is only safe against dark type coverage by pretty much everything except Bruxish as it does a minimum of 64.9% to it with the choice banded crunch.

252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Bruxish Crunch vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Tera Ghost Dudunsparce: 294-346 (64.9 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also Cacturne does stop it in its tracks due to dragon tails negative priority but sucker punch can be taken advantage of such as cursing it (tera ghost has been used) or boosting defences if it eventually is going to lose the 1v1.

252+ Atk Choice Band Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Tera Ghost Dudunsparce: 300-354 (66.2 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Dudunsparce-Three-Segment @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Atk / 208 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Dragon Tail
- Glare
- Headbutt/Body Slam

Dudunsparce can run a quite mean special set too, this can potentially devastate the entire tier either 1 OHKO or 2 OHKO and once boosted to +4 special attack the combination of boomburst and shadow ball can takedown special tanks such as AV Goodra. It doesn't always work as it unfavourable damage rolls with draco meteor unboosted. Finally this set is more vulnerable than the physical set as the many physical attacks can exploit its dark weakness while tera ghost far more easily.

252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Dudunsparce: 262-310 (57.8 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+4 0 SpA Dudunsparce Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 184-217 (48 - 56.6%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO

Dudunsparce @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Boomburst
- Shadow Ball

wynaut coil then???

 

[CW1999]

wynaut coil then???

Yeah that is an option that forgot to add when editing

 

[MoCBallyhoo]

Echoing this! I've used a fully physical SD set to great success:

Cacturne @ Lum Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch
- Swords Dance

Tera Fairy lets you SD in front of some of your most notable weaknesses; Fighting and Bug, letting you take on Passimian in a pinch and cheese some free SD's in front of Choice-locked Goodra or U-Turn users. Lum Berry is especially clutch and I've tried a bunch of different items like Life Orb and Black Glasses but Lum has helped the most.

Low Tier->Mid/High Tier
This deserves to be in at least the Mid-tier bucket, but I'd argue High-tier. Amazing defensive utility because of its immunities. It blanks many Bruxish sets and while crunch can still do a lot, you're still a deterrent. The immunities also come into play against other common threats like Medicham and Clawitzer.

Offensively Cacturne brings a lot to the table. It can comfortably run a variety of sets and has an incredible move pool. Taunt, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Encore, Destiny Bond are all great utility options while it also has access to SD and NP for setup sets. Quite notably, Cacturne can struggle to hit PomPom, but Spikes sets can help make up for that.

I've really been liking this mixed Spikes set, manages to catch people off-guard occasionally since they don't expect the strong LeafStorm after seeing the physical attacks. I'm Tera Dark just for emergency damage with Sucker Punch, but you could easily run something else.

Cacturne @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick / Drain Punch
- Spikes

I totally second this, it's been really helpful beating a lot of valuable Pokemon in the tier. Although I frequently delegate it as a sacrificial Lycanroc killer so that I don't have to sack any of my more consistent Pokemon. Otherwise, it completely eviscerates the frailer side of the tier with the power of sucker punch. However if given the opportunity to SD, anything that doesn't resist will crumble to dust. That being said though, its effectively all or nothing because its bulk is bad enough to the point where an NVE hit can 2hko it lmao
At the moment I've been running this set
Vigilante (Cacturne) @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Spikes / Spiky Shield
Its basically a genetically engineered check to half of all NU mons, Im really glad to have been enlightened by it.

 

[Ssbmfreak36]

Is there an argument for moving Basculin to at least the lower end of High Tier? It does a lot of what Bruxish does, though a little worse/better in some regards. For one, it outspeeds every single member of the Top Tier(though for Vap that doesn't really matter), and quite a lot of High Tier with base 98. Adaptability vs Rock Head is a matter of preference, but either one hits incredibly hard. I've been leaning towards Rock Head to spam Wave Crash and very occasionally Head Smash to great effect. Some relevant calcs from my experience on the ladder. Please keep in mind I've been mostly using Rock Head after a couple of big ladder sessions, so I haven't done as many Adaptability calcs.

Vs Phys Def Goodra(which I've run into distressingly too many)
252 Atk Choice Band Basculin Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Goodra: 174-205 (45.3 - 53.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Vs Phys Def Umbreon
252 Atk Choice Band Basculin Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 157-186 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

With the magic of Tera Water(Water over Rock as Wave Crash is FAR more reliable than Head Smash)

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Water Basculin Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Tera Rock calc vs Vap added for posterity here, but I don't think it'll be that useful

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Rock Basculin Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 285-336 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And that's just some of the bulkier mons in the tier. I'm sure there's a lot more calcs as I'm not super ladder experienced these days. The main reason Bruxish is likely better is that it is A) not nearly as one dimensional as Basculin and B) Can actually kill Vap. Vap hard walls Basculin unless it Tera Rock Head Smashes and IMO that is just actively a waste of a Tera, as well as ungodly unreliable since Vap can Wish/Protect you out of the game unless you hit all your Head Smashes

 

[CW1999]

Is there an argument for moving Basculin to at least the lower end of High Tier? It does a lot of what Bruxish does, though a little worse/better in some regards. For one, it outspeeds every single member of the Top Tier(though for Vap that doesn't really matter), and quite a lot of High Tier with base 98. Adaptability vs Rock Head is a matter of preference, but either one hits incredibly hard. I've been leaning towards Rock Head to spam Wave Crash and very occasionally Head Smash to great effect. Some relevant calcs from my experience on the ladder. Please keep in mind I've been mostly using Rock Head after a couple of big ladder sessions, so I haven't done as many Adaptability calcs.

Vs Phys Def Goodra(which I've run into distressingly too many)
252 Atk Choice Band Basculin Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Goodra: 174-205 (45.3 - 53.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Vs Phys Def Umbreon
252 Atk Choice Band Basculin Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 157-186 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

With the magic of Tera Water(Water over Rock as Wave Crash is FAR more reliable than Head Smash)

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Water Basculin Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Tera Rock calc vs Vap added for posterity here, but I don't think it'll be that useful

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Rock Basculin Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 285-336 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And that's just some of the bulkier mons in the tier. I'm sure there's a lot more calcs as I'm not super ladder experienced these days. The main reason Bruxish is likely better is that it is A) not nearly as one dimensional as Basculin and B) Can actually kill Vap. Vap hard walls Basculin unless it Tera Rock Head Smashes and IMO that is just actively a waste of a Tera, as well as ungodly unreliable since Vap can Wish/Protect you out of the game unless you hit all your Head Smashes

You can beat Vap on the 1v1 without having to worry about head smashes accuracy with tera normal double edges the damage dealt is less however you live after recoil.

252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Normal Basculin Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 306-360 (65.9 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Togkey]

Is there an argument for moving Basculin to at least the lower end of High Tier? It does a lot of what Bruxish does, though a little worse/better in some regards. For one, it outspeeds every single member of the Top Tier(though for Vap that doesn't really matter), and quite a lot of High Tier with base 98. Adaptability vs Rock Head is a matter of preference, but either one hits incredibly hard. I've been leaning towards Rock Head to spam Wave Crash and very occasionally Head Smash to great effect. Some relevant calcs from my experience on the ladder. Please keep in mind I've been mostly using Rock Head after a couple of big ladder sessions, so I haven't done as many Adaptability calcs.

Vs Phys Def Goodra(which I've run into distressingly too many)
252 Atk Choice Band Basculin Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Goodra: 174-205 (45.3 - 53.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Vs Phys Def Umbreon
252 Atk Choice Band Basculin Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 157-186 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

With the magic of Tera Water(Water over Rock as Wave Crash is FAR more reliable than Head Smash)

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Water Basculin Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Tera Rock calc vs Vap added for posterity here, but I don't think it'll be that useful

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Rock Basculin Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 285-336 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And that's just some of the bulkier mons in the tier. I'm sure there's a lot more calcs as I'm not super ladder experienced these days. The main reason Bruxish is likely better is that it is A) not nearly as one dimensional as Basculin and B) Can actually kill Vap. Vap hard walls Basculin unless it Tera Rock Head Smashes and IMO that is just actively a waste of a Tera, as well as ungodly unreliable since Vap can Wish/Protect you out of the game unless you hit all your Head Smashes

Although I can't particularly argue whether Basculin deserves to be high tier or not, the arguments for either side are pretty strong, I think Basculin is simply largely outclassed by Bruxish, but the realization of Tera and Adaptability not boosting additively may have led people to underrate Basculin without considering sets like Tera Rock.

 

[Pokeslice]

Although I can't particularly argue whether Basculin deserves to be high tier or not, the arguments for either side are pretty strong, I think Basculin is simply largely outclassed by Bruxish, but the realization of Tera and Adaptability not boosting additively may have led people to underrate Basculin without considering sets like Tera Rock.

I’m gonna echo togkey here. Basculin is by no means a bad pick, I’d even argue it’s about to pick up a ton more steam after the first ban slate, but Bruxish boasts a powerful secondary STAB to break past traditional Water-type checks such as bulky Waters, Grass-types, and Dragon-types that leaves Basc entirely in its shadow, especially with Aqua Jet covering for the speed tier difference. In a week or two, post a Bruxish ban, I think it could definitely be High Tier.